I don't really have a whole lot to talk about today. I have had one of the nastiest sinus infections ever known, so have really not been able to accomplish much these past two weeks. Seems to be getting better, but still feel miserable. Really just wanted to post so you would not think I had given up or died or something.
I have been thinking alot lately about perfection. So many of us strive for perfection in all that we do. We are called perfectionist's. Well I have been working on mine for years, and except for a few flare ups have been pretty good with it.
But talking about our Christian works, so often we think they are the perfection that gets us into heaven. Read your Bible for a second and you will see that is not the case.
See, we are perfected. And our works are perfected. So is our Faith. Perfected by what? By the Cross, thats what. You could say we are perfected by love. Because while the Cross was about redemption and Grace, it all started with love. God created us in love. We became separated from Him by sin. But He still loved us, but couldn't invite us to join Him because sin cannot be in His presence. And no matter how good we act, we are still far from being sin free.
So out of His great Love, He made a provision for us.
He heard the cries of the broken, saw the shackles of the slaves, from the onset of time. And the cry went out, "Is there anyone Worthy to go and redeem My Creation...Who is worthy."
And Jesus stood and said, "I AM."
And He was. It is His provision that gives us the ability to approach the throne of God. Our sins are covered by His blood. SO when you face God on that day, and believe in Him or not, you will face Him, He will see one of two things: You as the sinner that you are, or the Blood of His Son.
And He will say one of two things: Well Done My good and faithful servant, come and enter the rest of your Lord.
Or, Depart from me forever, for I do not know you, thou wicked servant.
Which will it be for you?
And here is the really awesome thing: IT IS YOUR CHOICE!
Choose wisely, for time is short.
A ministers teachings and explanations of just about anything related to Christianity, Psychology, Counseling, or anything elso that may come up. Everyone is welcome, as is any questions or comments. As long as they are not vulger in nature, feel free to speak your mind.
11 comments:
It is NOT our choice! God does the choosing. Don't you believe the Doctrines of Grace?
I'm glad God chose me...because He will never change His mind. If I chose Him, I could change from one day to the next. Eternal security is because it all rests on God Himself....not on me!
I am not sure I understand your argument here. Isn't one of the greatest gifts God ever gave us choice? Did you not choose to accept Christ as your Savior? Jesus told His disciples that He chose them before the world began; is that what your talking about here? Didn't Adam and Eve have a choice? Didn't Jesus have a choice? (Read Hebrews- He CHOSE to die for us out of Love) Not sure what doctrine you are referencing either. The only Doctrine I follow is the Doctrine of Jesus Christ as laid out in 1 Cor 15:1-8. We are saved by grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But we all made the choice: Christ or Eternal Death. So I ask again, didn't you choose to start following Christ at one time?
No, I didn't choose Jesus Christ. He chose me! I received Him as Saviour and Lord when I repented of my sin and asked Him to be my Saviour. That is not a choice!
In salvation, God does the choosing. Jesus told His disciples that they had not chosen Him, He had chosen them!
I am surprised that you have never heard of the Doctrines of Grace! You are a pastor....didn't you study them at college/seminary or wherever you studied to be a pastor??
Yes, we are saved by grace.....God's grace, God's choice. There is more to it than this but here are some of the basics of the Doctrines of Grace...
Man's Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).
Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).
Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).
Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.
Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.
OK, let me get this straight. Jesus came for the elect, and everyone else is just damned? With no chance? Then that means we can quit sending missionaries and spending so much time on evangelism. The ones in Church, or at least yours, are in, everyone else, live like you want...you were not chosen.
Sorry I cannot believe that. You are the only person I know that Jesus picked up and forced into salvation...what if He didn't choose your children?
I went to seminary at Liberty University, and am even now attending, pursuing a PhD in Christian Counseling.
The Apostle Paul says to condemn anyone who preaches a doctrine other than the one he taught. 1 Cor 15:1-8 is "his" doctrine.
The always saved thing, well I can meet you most of the way there. I have seen a lot of "saved" people that live like absolute hell. Even have a couple of "saved" people going through detox right now. I think if you have a REAL conversion experience, and your life reflects that, you are indeed secure. Hebrews 6:4-6 explains what happens when the "elect" turn away from Christ; in this case return to Judaism. I know a former pastor and missionary who is now a wiccan priest. He preached for well over 20 years and led a lot of souls to Christ. I do not believe he is going to heaven, regardless of how many little "prayers" he repeats to a preacher. But once saved, always saved is the doctrine that he claims will get him to heaven. He just now believes Christ is one of many "spirits" offering their services.
As far as the Sermon goes, here is where I differ. I think, and can back up with scripture, that Jesus chose all men. At their birth they are written in the Book of Life, which records every birth of human life. Don't confuse this with the Lambs book of life, because if you read the Great White Throne Judgment you will find all of the books listed. But we do have the choice to reject Christ. Either one of us could do it tomorrow, if we chose to do so. Then, as Revelations teaches, that man or woman's name is blotted from the book of life. A true conversion experience will get your name written in the Lambs Book of Life.
I am a recovering Baptist, so I know all about the teaching...both of them. It was after a long time and much reflection that God revealed to me the error of my ways. What happened? I met the Holy Spirit, that's what happened. He is that part of the Trinity that most of us ignore today. He is real, and once I accepted Him, all of the Gifts in 1 Corinthians were manifested, and I saw that God really is the same today as He was back then, and I didn't have to explain Him away by saying "He only did that back then to get the Faith started." Real. True. God manifested in Three!
Yes, Jesus died for the elect and ONLY for the elect. That is what the Bible teaches.
But it does NOT mean that we should not preach the gospel to everyone as you and I do not know who God's elect are and the elect have to hear the truth, repent and trust the Lord Jesus as Saviour in order to be saved.
Your theology makes Jesus a failure because you say he died for all and all have a chance to be saved....BUT ALL ARE NOT SAVED so His work was in vain in their case....according to your beliefs!
But election shows that the Lord Jesus was 100% victorious as he died for the elct and ALL the elct will be saved. His work is perfect.
We do not ignore the Holy Spirit as you suggest as He is the one who convicts sinners of their sin and need to repent and believe.....He enables them to come to Christ.
Your explanation of Hebrews 6 vv4-6 is wrong. The apostle is speaking of nominal believers (i.e. those who know something of the way of salvation or have "tasted" is as the verses say) who turn against the Lord Jesus and become apostate. True believers (the elect....those who are really converted) cannot become apostate!
NO, I DO NOT HAVE THE CHOICE TO REJECT CHRIST!!! He has chosen me and He will keep me! Praise Him!
Well, we are just going to have to disagree. When The Bible says that Jesus died for the elect, it means all others are forever lost? Your logic befuddles me.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will never perish, but have eternal life" John 3:16
"For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED" Romans 10:13, Joel 3:32
"If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou SHALT BE SAVED" Romans 10:9
"The Lord...is long-suffering to us, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH" 2 Peter 3:10
Brother, whosoever means whosoever! You have no contention with me, but with the Word of God. I DO know the scriptures and what they say about the elect, but I believe you are applying them wrongly, with all due respect.
And finally, allow me to share a little of my testimony and what led me to question the "once saved, always saved" doctrine I was taught and believed for 25 years. (and still believe to a certain extent, like I said in a previous post)
What I can tell you with every conviction in my soul, is that I took a "break" from God. I totally walked away from Him for three years. I drank, snorted, and smoked myself to happiness. I broke all of the ten commandments except one, and if the gun had not have jammed, I would have broke that one. I know I was going to heaven before that. I know I am going to heaven now. There was no way in the world that the devils first deacon (me) would have went to heaven in that time. I went against everything I knew about God, and I did it on purpose. I jokingly tell folks now, that when I came back to the Lord, the devil declared three days of mourning, saying "what are we going to do now". Believe me I was that bad.
And what GRACE! Only grace could have forgiven me for the things I did. Thank God Almighty that Jesus chose the cross. And that is the true doctrine of Grace. I cried out to God, and through the provision of my Lord and Savior's Blood, He welcomed me back into the fold.
Whosoever...that is a whole lot of people. So I will keep preaching, and with His anointing, hopefully some others will choose Christ, for time is truly short.
You misunderstand once again! I have no quarrel with the Bible.....my quarrel is with your misinterperetation of the Bible! Yes, whosoever believes will be saved....that just means that anyone who believes is saved...the whosoever means the elect...they ARE the whosoever! It's quite simple.
We do have to preach as we do not know who the "whosoever/elect" are!!!
I suggest that you study the Doctrines of Grace.....they are Biblical....Arminian theology is NOT Biblical!
Are you a real pastor???
OK, Anonymous, first things first, could you come up with a user name, or use your name...anonymous could be my stalker back (yes, true story for a future post maybe).
Whosoever either means a few elect people in your book, or you are changing the meaning to meet your needs. Who so ever. Of course they are the elect. If anyone that believes is saved, (which is true) then whosoever means that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord WILL be saved.
Do you agree with that? Then, exactly what is your argument? Somewhere along the line "whosoever" has to make a choice. Just like you did. Just like I did. I do not know where you were saved, but I can tell you where I was. I was under conviction of the Holy Ghost, I chose to step out, receive Christ, and I am now saved.
If anyone that call on the Lord can be saved, then you have no argument; I am assuming that since you do not use your name, you know me, or at least know of me, and I think you are arguing just to be heard. Conflict within the body of Christ is unhealthy and unChrist-like. Calvinism, Catholicism, Armineism, and all the other -ism's are religion. They are man made. I do not follow either. I follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ as laid out in the Holy Word of God. Look at 1 Cor 15:1-8. That is the ONLY doctrine that Jesse holds to.
And yes, I am really a preacher. I am not a head Pastor yet, but am an associate Pastor and the director of a Christ based drug addiction treatment program here that is quiet successful, thank you very much.
The Bible also says further along in 1 Corinthians that if any man presents any other doctrine, they should be put out of the church.
Whoever is just what it means. I am a conservative when it comes to the Word- I don;t need to finaggle it any-it means what is says, and says what it means. There is a cancer withing our Churches that are tearing it apart and causing a lot of people to turn away or find another one. Sad, really because that is just what Christ and the Apostles feared, and it has been happening more and more frequently. Paul called them "petty geneologies and things to confuse the elect". I feel the same way. Stick with THE Word, The Gospel, and The Savior and you will be just fine. The Doctrine is simple. Don't make it more difficult than it already is.
I don't think you understand plain English! My explanation was perfectly clear but you have wilfully misunderstood it yet again!
You don't understand the meaning of a simple word like whosoever! Even when it is explained clearly to you!!
The Doctrines of Grace ARE important...because they are what the Bible teaches.
I have never stalked anybody...how dare you suggest such a thing!?? You must be paranoid......
Also, you were asked if you were a real PASTOR and you answered that you were a real preacher...pastor and preacher are not the same word. Not every preacher is a pastor!
I shall not discuss this with you any more as you can't follow a logical and simple argument. No point in discussion.....
Thank you for your discussion. I hope that my future posts do not rile you up so much.
I do want to point out that you did not read my last post carefully. I noted that: I am an associate Pastor of my Church, I WAS stalked by a complete psyco so I am nervous about "anonymous" anything, and basically agreed with your previous post. I really think our actual beliefs are not that far apart, I just don't call it a "doctrine". I think debate is sometimes healthy for the Body of Christ. I do not believe in condemning all that do not believe exactly as I do point by point. As Jesus told the disciples about the strangers baptizing and teaching in His name to leave them alone, for if they are not against us, they are for us. I did read AND I understood your definition's. I STILL choose to believe that whosoever is whosoever, but I disagree respectfully with no condemnation toward you.
Again, thanks for your discussion.
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